COMMITTEE ON LABOR
MINUTES: APRIL 25, 2005
IN ATTENDANCE: MEMBERS OF LABOR COMMITTEE: Leg. José Alvarado, Chair, Leg. James Maisano, Leg. Richard Wishnie and citizen member Michael Carriere, Dist. Council 9.; OTHERS: BOL: Barbara Dodds, CE’O: Allie Restiano, WESTCHESTER/PUTNAM AFL-CIO: Michael Trinchi, Director of Community Services.
ITEM DISCUSSED: Apprenticeship Training Law
With a quorum present, Chair Alvarado called the meeting to order at 4:10 pm. He welcomed everyone to the first meeting of the Committee since he was appointed Chair. He welcomed Michael Carriere to the Committee as a non-voting member. He said that although he was familiar with this issue, he relied on the other members to be brought up to date.
Leg. Wishnie suggested using a press release he authored with George Latimer in September 2002 to cover the highlights, reading from the release:
The new law would be for those contractors with construction projects or lease renovation arrangements over 50,000. They would be required to have in place a New York State certified apprenticeship-training program that trains unskilled workers for trade careers. The Committee consulted with building trades union officials and the County Attorney’s Office to put together a policy in keeping with NYS labor law and an executive order signed by County Executive Andrew Spano in 1998. Under state law, the County is permitted to require contractors who bid for county construction projects to have an apprenticeship program certified by the state. The executive order requires contractors with either a 14-person work force or a contract over $50,000 to have such a training program. This legislation would give legal enforcement to the intent of the executive order but goes several steps further: to remove the number of employees category; to include multiple as well as single projects that total $50,000; and to include renovations for lease arrangements in County projects.
Wishnie said that what’s important is that taxpayer dollars would be put to work making sure that minimum wage earners have an opportunity to make careers for themselves and have hope for the future. Apprenticeship programs are the future of the workforce. The investment made by legitimate employers in their certified apprenticeship training program shows a higher level of commitment to workers. Other employers hire for a job and then its goodbye. Two problems with that—1) the worker doesn’t have a teacher and 2) people paying for the work need to make sure that at the end of the product, the contractor has a trained and skilled workforce that knows the codes and what they are doing and have the education and skills. Its’ a win-win for the taxpayers, for the workers and for the County to have such a program in place.
Leg. Alvarado asked which trades would or would not be included in this?
Michael Carriere said it would be all the building and construction trades and would effect any contractor bidding on county work. Alvarado then asked if there are any negatives.
Carriere said the problem at the public hearing was the cap. The Labor Committee started to work it out but it was never brought back to public hearing.
Allie Restiano asked how the County could avoid a contractor classifying all his workers as apprentices. Leg. Wishnie replied that the state has a program that requires a 3 to 1 ratio so the first three men on the job have to be journeymen. A fourth could be an apprentice.
Discussion ensued about common, legal, and illegal practices. Restiano maintained that employers can and do claim journeymen as apprentices on jobs requiring an apprenticeship program. Leg. Alvarado said that this item was not going to be concluded at this meeting and that there would be other discussions on various parts of the proposed law.
Leg. Alvarado proposed that the quorum for the Committee be two members present and two voting members to move items forward. Approved by members present.
Mike Trinchi said there’s a safety issue here too. The employer does not want to have the reputation and the insurance that goes with it, that his jobs are not safe. When this job starts we want to see the license and credentials.
Leg. Alvarado asked for a picture today without this bill. Restiano replied that today you ask the low bidder ‘have you done this job before’ and he gives maybe twenty locations. You check the locations, see he does nice work and he’s qualified and you give him the job. All the men are paid the journeyman’s rate without the apprenticeship program.
Leg. Alvarado asked can you make sure new people developed if you have to have journeymen on every job? Trinchi: Union guys and those who have apprenticeship programs are going to be watch dogs they want to make sure that is works. Restiano said he catches people every single day that are finding ways to circumvent it. Of the first fourteen contractors he checked in 1998, 13 were cheating. He investigated union contractors and they were cheating too. They just can’t cheat as much. Trinchi said there’s no doubt that this law gives you the extra teeth to make the difference and get the quality work. Right now, Restiano said, the non-union contractor is going to have to pay his men the journeyman’s rate so he has to bid higher. Once you allow the contractor to pay apprenticeship rates, he can bid lower and that’s the problem. They keep the guys in the apprenticeship program for a while and then they let them go.
Leg. Maisano said the current debate wasn’t the main issue of the debate the Committee has been having over the last two or three years. The amount of the contract and how very difficult it was for non-union shops to get approval for apprenticeship training programs were the two objections that the Committee found very persuasive. Some of the non-union guys said they would support the law if the cap was raised and you could make sure that the apprenticeship program is readily available to them. $50,000 was the lowest of any other county programs we had looked at and we thought it should be raised. Trinchi added he did not think $50,000 was that low. There are quite a few schools trying to create programs and looking for participants. Unions have their own and non-union guys could fill up those programs. Alvarado asked if the $50,000 was still too low. Members responded that $250,000 was a number that everyone was talking about. Nassau does $500,000, Suffolk, Rockland and Albany do $250,000 and we were trying to get more in line with everyone else. Leg. Alvarado asked if the number of employees fluctuates. It has to be a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio with 14 employees or more. Carriere said there were about 130 programs statewide of which 90 were non-union.
The meeting was adjourned with a motion from James Maisano and seconded by José Alvarado.
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