COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY AFFAIRS
MINUTES: April 11, 2005, 2:00 pm
IN ATTENDANCE:
COMMUNITY AFFAIRS COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Legislators Judy Myers, Chair, Jose Alvarado, and Lois Bronz
OTHERS: BOL Staff: Barbara Arrington Dodds; CE’s O: William Randolph; Parks & Recreation: W. Chip Mathews, Deputy Comm.,Robert Reno, Manager, County Center; Elinore Gordon, Robert Presser, Kiley Blackman, Animal Defenders of Westchester.
ITEM FOR DISCUSSION:
Banning exotic animal entertainment acts in Westchester County
Guests: Chip Mathews, Deputy Commissioner, Parks & Recreation and Robert Reno, County Center Manager
With a quorum present, Chair Judy Myers called the meeting to order.
Mr. Alvarado (former chair of the Committee) gave some background to the issue. He said the Committee began late last year listening to supporters of the proposal and at the last meeting, we had a conference call with Stuffi Hanneford, the owner of the Hanneford Circus, who supports animal acts. She repeatedly mentioned how well treated the animals are. This was Hanneford’s opportunity to express another viewpoint.
Chip Mathews said that the Parks Dept. guarantees that when the animals arrive at County Center they are inspected by the County Health Dept. and a permit is issued based on the health of the animals. He said he doesn’t believe they have ever had any major violations at the facility that would concern the general public. He also said they are aware of incidents in other areas and although these things do happen when dealing with wild animals, we secure the animals so they cannot break loose. The animals at County Center are there a day or two before the performance and they have to be concerned about the welfare of the men and women who work at the County Center as well as the general public.
Robert Reno said that in his 22 years and hundreds of performances, he has never personally witnessed any abuse to any animal. The animals are housed in the building and inspected by the health department. Mr. Hanneford no longer owns elephants and retired his own elephants to a sanctuary in Florida. One of his elephants had to be put down because of tuberculosis. Since it costs about $2000 a month to feed one elephant, he brokers it out and hires a contractor to do the elephant act. The County acts responsibly with regard to the animals, e.g. In 2003, there was a snow storm on the Monday of their last performance and the show was cancelled but animals were still here and the circus people couldn’t get feed to them so the County got feed from its own farm at Muscoot. They have about a ten-foot aisle between the seating and the arena. He said he couldn’t speak for where these animals are trained before coming into the building but he has never witnessed any abuses. He produced Health Department inspection documents.
Mr. Alvarado: How long has Hanneford been coming to the County?
Mathews: 34 years
Mrs. Myers: Does he own all the other animals?
Reno: He owns the circus but he sub-contracts almost all the other acts except the horse act, which is his trademark. Since he is elderly, his daughter handles the animals.
Mrs. Bronz: Do we know anything about the contractors he uses?
Reno: From year to year it is a different person.
Myers: Given that these are subcontractors, they might not be as careful with the animals as Hanneford had been in the past. Would he or the County have any way of knowing that?
Mathews: The County would only know about that if something was brought to our attention which we could then investigate. As far as doing any background checks, we do not do that.
Myers: Perhaps we should be getting the information on anyone he contracts with.
Alvarado: Mrs. Hanneford did mention that there was some agreement that they would not rent animals from anyone who is mistreating animals.
Reno: It is to their best interest. In the contract they have to comply with federal, state and local laws. On page 2, number 8 of the contract – legislators reading.
Richard Presser: I was involved in getting the Greenburgh law passed. The world is changing in circuses. The most successful, like Cirque du Soleil, do not use animals. The use of subcontractors is to avoid having the responsibility. Our awareness of animals has increased and we have a growing respect for them as individual social beings. However they treat these captives, sooner or later there is an outbreak—even with the best trainers. You are dealing with a wild animal that shouldn’t be where it is. Our children are learning from the media about what animals are and how they should be respected. I think the Dept. of Health has a limited viewpoint as to what they are checking for. The federal inspectors from the Dept of Agriculture are trained by Barnum and Bailey, a clear conflict of interest. At the last meeting a former Barnum and Bailey trainer, Tom Ryder, left a large testimony on the methods of controlling the animals.
Myers: Brings up an interesting point. What amount of net revenue comes into the County of Westchester from this circus?
Reno: We usually net about $120,000 each year after our expenses are taken out.
Myers: Has anyone ever asked Cirque du Soleil to come?
Reno: We don’t self-promote. Usually the promoter comes to us. We have not gone out and solicited acts. It’s a license agreement to use a facility.
Myers: Is that due to a lack of manpower?
Mathews: With the marketing we now have in our Parks Dept., this is something that we can now do. One of the drawbacks to solicitation is that you have contracts with these promoters every year. Many dates are already booked. The County Center is a small facility for many of them and there is a question whether it would be an attraction for them given the seating capacity.
Presser: Cirque du Soleil played last year in the Palisades Shopping Centers. They have 17 touring companies with a base in Las Vegas. One problem might be that we are too close to New York City.
Kiley Blackman: Children who attend the Big Apple Circus come out just as happy without animals. They have given up their exotic animals and still maintain horse and dog acts.
Reno: For years we didn’t have the budgets to go out and solicit so we created a license agreement for a private promoter to rent our facility. They would bring the act in and, after our expenses—ushers, county police etc., we would get 15% of their gross sales and 25% of merchandise sales. Other profits would be from County Center concessions.
Myers: And this is what comes out in the $120,000?
Reno: You won’t see concession proceeds in the $120,000 because those are separate contracts and our percentage from them begins after they reach $1 million in sales.
Presser: Have we ever sent out an RFP to animal-free circuses to see if they are interested?
Mathews: No.
Myers: Could we?
Mathews: Yes.
Myers: My biggest concern is—is there any downside to saying to Hanneford that their time has passed and it is not the way we think this County is going. It might be an interesting thing to try—perhaps we would get more interest and gross more than $120,000 and we wouldn’t have to deal with the animal rights issues. It sounds like It might be better to urge the elimination of not just elephants but all exotic animals and look for animal-free circuses.
Bronz: I think we should do two things—sending out an RFP or a survey exploring whether or not there is any interest in having an animal free circus use our facility and second, for us to have additional dialogue about what we feel about Hanneford.
Alvarado: This is also an item that is with the Legislation committee. A lot of my colleagues have said they would hate to lose the opportunity to have direct experiences with the animals.
Bronz: There are feelings on both sides.
Presser: Our point is that you can always go to the Bronx Zoo.
Kiley Blackman raised the question of diminished sales in relation to discounts to handicapped groups who are not properly supervised and could present a dangerous situation.
Barbara Dodds: In the Connecticut bill, they banned the use of certain equipment on the animals.
Alvarado: We don’t have any legislation to go over yet.
Bronz: Let’s have a joint meeting with Legislation and then decide where to go from there.
Myers: In the meantime, could we also have some research done on the possibility of getting non-animal circuses? Do we have any contractual obligation with Hanneford to not accept a competing circus? Is there any language like that?
Mathews: I don’t believe so. They have not received the 2006 contract yet.
Reno: There is no exclusivity. We used to do a summer circus and our traditional Presidents’ Weekend.
Myers: How long would it take to get some information about bringing in other groups?
Mathews: I think we can get the word out but we have to check the dates we can offer. Maybe not in 2006 but in 2007 and at a time when the kids are out of school.
Bronz: Why couldn’t we do a survey as a precursor to an RFP?
Mathews: I think we can use our website for a survey.
Myers: Perhaps you can make phone calls to them asking would they be willing to come to White Plains.
Mathews: We would have to look at our calendar and tell them what would be available.
Myers: But we do need to know whether this is feasible.
Blackman: Last time I provided information that the Health Dept. only gets involved in enclosures, food and the removal of excrement. It’s a temporary permit and they don’t get into the animals welfare. Cunio was one of Hanneford’s contractors and were fined $200,000 and directed to give up all of their elephants—they were sick and some were barely able to walk.
Elinore Gordon: Can you tell me the name of the sanctuary the elephants went to in Florida?
Reno: No, I can’t. I think it cost him $185,000 as a donation.
Dodds: We have among our papers a notice of dangerous condition to the County Executive that was received by the County Attorney.
Presser: It puts the County on notice that if this is received and something happens than there is a possibility of a negligence lawsuit.
Myers: Then to sum up, we will ask to have a joint meeting with Legislation and in the interim, if you could investigate through the website, what public interest there would be for non-animal circuses and if Parks could informally investigate any non-animal circuses who would be interested in coming to White Plains.
Alvarado: And are they willing to pay our terms.
Myers: Armed with this information we can proceed and work with Legislation.
Motion to adjourn was accepted.
Text: 
Print:
